MyDD :: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread

As Maddow said, anyone who could be convinced rationally will be convinced by this speech. There will be post-rational holdouts, but that can't be helped. Excellent, home-run of a speech for Unity and against McCain, major credit to Clinton from a person who's not a fan of hers.

by Beomoose on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:19:20 PM EST

Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (2.00 / 4)

Good Point... Maddow also points out if Obama gets the same number of Dems Kerry and Gore did he'll be up by 4-5 points. If this drives enough people that way.... Awesome.

Olbermann and Tweety are gushing AND ripping apart McCain's response. EVEN BETTER!!!

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:31:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (none / 0)

Me too. She done good tonight. No qualification for once.

by Christy1947 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:34:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (2.00 / 2)

Mrs Diefenbach was bitching about Hillary as late as yesterday, now she calls me at work telling me she loves her and her speech, which I guess I'll get the highlights of later. What the heck is a goin on?

by ReillyDiefenbach on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:19:53 PM EST

Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (2.00 / 3)

Well for starters, it sounds like you might be getting laid tonight. ;-)

Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.

by itsthemedia on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:22:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (2.00 / 3)

well, is that his wife or his mother?

by slynch on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:38:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (2.00 / 1)

Hillary, in the quiet words of The Who:

You are forgiven! You are forgiven!

You are forgiven, forgiven, forgiven!

by geha714 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:20:29 PM EST

Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (2.00 / 1)

Forgiven? For what?

Please.

by cuppajoe on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:44:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (2.00 / 2)

Dude, there were just as many pissed off Obama supporters as there were Hillary Supporters. This should not only help get some of the Hillary people on Obama's side, but also Obama's people on her side.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:48:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Let's just hope all 9 million (2.00 / 2)

of those voters who plan to vote for McCain or don't know were watching.

Except for those dumbass PUMAs, I don't see how any former Clinton supporters can't let her down now by not voting or voting for McCain.

by BlueGAinDC on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:21:59 PM EST

Re: Let's just hope all 9 million (2.00 / 1)

I keep thinking there was a PUMA Viewing Party that turned into a major bummer about 60 seconds into the speech.

Somebody better call the authorities before they start ODing on Ben & Jerrys.

by Bush Bites on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:26:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's just hope all 9 million (none / 0)

Hell, I heard the PUMA party was turning into a reconciliation party...They started calling up every person they ever insulted and apologized....

A PROUD Hopium user!

by xodus1914 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:38:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's just hope all 9 million (none / 0)

Hillary was sensational. This is the Hillary I've admired for so many years. This is why she really deserves the passionate dedication that she gets from her supporters.

This speech was perfect; invigorating, exciting, passionate and deeply moving. I can't scramble for the appropriate words. But I can, and did send her a more thanks of a more tangible sort: https://contribute.hillarycampaign2008.c om/contribute.html?sc=2507

As for the (ma)lingering pumas. Well, we've all known for a while that this was no longer about Hillary or the Democratic ideals. Judging from their mindset at the moment I think it's best just to consider them a small lost cause.

Nope. Not gonna do it. NOBAMA for me. No deal. Not even for you, lady.

She is on FIRE tonight with this speech, even if a quarter or so of it was bogus O-propaganda.

* sigh *

A drink whenever Palin makes a Well-argued, Semantically Intact, Logical and Lucid Argument -- or WASILLA for short.

by January 20 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:04:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's just hope all 9 million (none / 0)

Its still a small minority. I want the undecided and the soft mccain supporters. The other ones were never Democrats.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:19:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's just hope all 9 million (none / 0)

Small minority?!?!?!

FTR, there are at least 50 PUMAs here.

Does that sound like a "small minority"?

"At least" could mean 50, 51 or 50,000. In fact, all of Denver may be there.

by TCQuad on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:23:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

undecided and the soft (none / 0)

Agreed!

A drink whenever Palin makes a Well-argued, Semantically Intact, Logical and Lucid Argument -- or WASILLA for short.

by January 20 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:45:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Have always loved her (2.00 / 4)

Always will. Tremendous speech. Both my wife and I were in tears. The Harriet Tubman part of the speech was electric.

Well done Hillary. Amazing job.

by zmus on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:22:04 PM EST

Excellent! (1.90 / 11)

Best speech thus far. I think only Obama will top it.

Restore America's Strength.

by RJEvans on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:22:25 PM EST

Re: Excellent! (2.00 / 1)

DTAYLOR2...

YOU NEED TO LEARN WHAT THE FUCK DESERVES A TROLL RATING. THIS COMMENT IN NO WAY DESERVES IT.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:47:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Excellent! (2.00 / 1)

Don't know why somebody would TR you for that...

As you said, Hill's speech was excellent. There aren't enough adjectives to describe how perfectly she hit every single note.

I hope Obama can top it because if he can, he can't be beaten. Then let's see if she can top him when he speaks at her nomination in 2016!

See how Saxby Chambliss is helping you!

by Spiffarino on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:50:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Excellent! (none / 0)

No way this deserves TR. Uprating.

by stegro on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:53:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Excellent! (none / 0)

Guys, often these are accidental TRs. Someone means to give mojo and selects the wrong rating.

If yer after gettin the honey, then you don't go killing all the bees.

by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:06:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Excellent! (2.00 / 2)

They need to then get their head out of their ass and check their work. I do... most of us do.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:14:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Excellent! (1.00 / 1)

If it's from DTaylor it's not accidental. You should check its hidden comments. McCain supporter troll.

by turtlescrubber on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:28:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Excellent! (none / 0)

Agreed, but accidents happen.

Anyway, great night tonight. Good time to ignore the haters out there.

If yer after gettin the honey, then you don't go killing all the bees.

by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:39:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (2.00 / 4)

She didn't just hit it out of the park - that ball is sailing over New Zealand right now.

by auronrenouille on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:23:24 PM EST

Leaving orbit (2.00 / 3)

"We live entangled in webs of endless deceit, often self-deceit, but with a little honest effort, it is possible to extricate ourselves from them". -- NC

by Trond Jacobsen on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:26:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Left a crater on Pluto (2.00 / 1)

See how Saxby Chambliss is helping you!

by Spiffarino on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:52:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (2.00 / 7)

Finally someone did it, She ripped McCain into pieces.

Gandhi - "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

by HCLiberal on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:23:30 PM EST

Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (2.00 / 2)

Loved the Twin cities line. That one bears repeating next week during the R convention.

Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.

by itsthemedia on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:31:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (2.00 / 2)

hahahaha the best part of this, it was a GREAT speech so ofcourse Fox News has to attack it, I hope PUMA is enjoying it, you know Fox News is their new favorite channel :-P

Dream for tomorrow but fight for it today.

by TruthMatters on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:23:45 PM EST

Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (2.00 / 3)

Ha! Are they attacking it? That's proof it worked right there. We knew they'd head right back to Hillary hating after she became a threat again.

"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."

by vcalzone on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:26:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (2.00 / 1)

That speech made me want to move back to New York just so that I can vote for her. Blew me away.

No way. No how. No McCain.

"We live entangled in webs of endless deceit, often self-deceit, but with a little honest effort, it is possible to extricate ourselves from them". -- NC

by Trond Jacobsen on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:24:30 PM EST

Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (2.00 / 1)

An fantastic speech from a fantastic woman.....Here's to Hillary Rodham Clinton!!!

Toot, thank you for raising such a terrific person...You done good and we will have you in our hearts.

by hootie4170 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:25:34 PM EST

PUYBYA! Party Unity? You Bet Your Ass! (2.00 / 2)

by Hesiod Theogeny on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:26:25 PM EST

Re: PUYBYA! Party Unity? You Bet Your Ass! (none / 0)

heh, I like it!

Dream for tomorrow but fight for it today.

by TruthMatters on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:29:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Mark Penn really did her disservice (2.00 / 3)

Hillary was awesome tonight..if she would have been that person during her campaign...I may have never given another candidate a look. I am so happy to be able to send her an honest compliment and have restored respect for her.

by netgui68 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:26:29 PM EST

Re: Mark Penn really did her disservice (2.00 / 2)

I'll give you that... I still would have supported Obama but he IS my Senator. But had she been like that, she would have probably won Iowa and thus take the whole thing. If she runs in 2016, She will have learned quite a bit...

Clinton/Warner 2016!!!

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:34:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mark Penn really did her disservice (2.00 / 2)

Obama/Biden 2008 and 2012
Clinton/Warner 2016 and 2020
Warner/Schweitzer 2024 and 2028

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:35:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mark Penn really did her disservice (none / 0)

Schweitzer/M. Obama 2032...With all the health care we're gonna have, we're all gonna live at least 25 years longer.

The future is unwritten

by Strummerson on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:43:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mark Penn really did her disservice (2.00 / 1)

Hillary/M. Obama You've had the men, now have the REAL rulers of the White House ;-)

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:56:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mark Penn really did her disservice (none / 0)

But Hillary will already have served 8 years

The future is unwritten

by Strummerson on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:59:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

For the first time since 2007 (2.00 / 3)

I'm remembering what it felt like when we were all giddy at our field, an embarrassment of riches.

Tonight was a good night.

Tonight reminded me why I'm a Democrat - and why at long last, I think we're going to reach that promised land in November.

Thank you Hillary.

Well done and godspeed.

by zonk on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:26:39 PM EST

Re: For the first time since 2007 (2.00 / 2)

Ain't this the truth. I am so proud of all of our candidates, and even though I have been a critic of Hillary, she won me over tonight. That was a friggin' AWESOME speech.

With moments like this at the DNC there is NOTHING the RNC is going to be able to put out to compete with it.

by ArkansasLib on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:46:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (2.00 / 3)

Perfect.

Suck on that haters.

"Keep going!"

Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!

by spacemanspiff on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:27:27 PM EST

ABC post speech reactions (2.00 / 4)

Were generally very positive. But Stephanopoulis couldn't resist pushing the Dems in Disarray meme a little, and was slapped down by ... wait for it ... Charlie freakin' Gibson!

Rough transcript:
STEPH: I got a call from a friend who's a big supporter of McCain who said "How dumb was it not to pick Hillary?"

GIBSON: Yeah, I guess the Republicans will try to keep fanning that flame.

You had to hear the tone of Gibson's voice for the full effect - so dismissive. I think he wanted to add "as if that's going to work any more after this speech." Steph came off looking like a real wanker.

Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.

by itsthemedia on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:29:38 PM EST

Re: ABC post speech reactions (none / 0)

Sounds like the Repubs know they just have to call Stephie up to get one of their talking points on the air.

Showing a rare flash of intelligence, Charlie knew Stephie was being had, but Stephie couldn't figure it out.

by Bush Bites on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:04:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Historical (2.00 / 4)

Her speech will be the speech we remember after the election is long over.

It's up there with Teddy Kennedy's '80 "The Dream Never Dies" speech, and Jesse Jackson's '88 "Keep Hope Alive" speech, and even Mario Cuomo's "Tale of Two Cities" speech in '84.

by wolff109 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:31:48 PM EST

Re: Historical (2.00 / 1)

Or Barack Obama's 2004 Speech "The Audacity of Hope" which I would say is easily as memorable as Kennedy's 80 speech and more than Jesse's 88 speech.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:40:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Historical (none / 0)

Jesse Jackson's 88 speech is my first memory of politics. I was 5 years old, and remember watching that speech, not knowing a damn thing about politics, but cheering "Go, Jesse, Go" out of sheer inspiration.

Hillary gave some other kid that feeling tonight.

by ArkansasLib on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:49:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Historical (2.00 / 1)

Probably... just as Obama gave someone that feeling 4 years ago. I'm not bad mouthing Jackson's speech... I'm saying Obama's is one of the best ever and felt it should be included in the above list. I've heard Obama give 3 of the greatest speeches I have ever heard... The Audacity of Hope, The Religion Speech (which pissed some progressives off who missed the point of the speech entirely, and the Race Speech after the Wright Affair.

That was hands down the best speech I ever heard Hillary give and would probably make my list of greatest speeches.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:00:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Historical (none / 0)

Oh, I completely agree with you about Obama's speech in 04'. And personally I think the speech on Race is one of the best, most insightful, and most important political speeches I'll see in my lifetime.

Can't wait till thursday...

by ArkansasLib on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:06:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (2.00 / 4)

dude even the bitter republican callers on cspan are saying she did a good job!!! damn. when you can get compliments from the cspan callers you know we have moved some motha fucken mountains!

by alyssa chaos on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:32:10 PM EST

Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (2.00 / 1)

Totally.

I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt

by fogiv on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:26:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Were You In It For Me? (2.00 / 3)

12 minutes or so in came this passage - absolutely arresting -

To me, she hit her stride here, and carried it through to the end.

In addition to everything else people will say about this speech's function, my take away is that in her writing, but most importantly, in her delivery, Hilary grew much larger in stature tonight.

I believe in what was suggested earlier (perhaps by Howard Fineman?) Ted Kennedy's torch in the Senate could now well pass now to her - what a noble calling!

~ Rob McC

by Rob McC again on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:32:28 PM EST

Re: Were You In It For Me? (none / 0)

Yes, there has been much said about the improvement of Obama's debate skills over the campaign, but if you look at her concession speech in June and tonight's effort, who could argue that Hillary has not shown tremendous growth in the area of public speaking?

Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.

by itsthemedia on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:41:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Simply amazing (2.00 / 2)

Thank you Senator Clinton.

by UrbanRedneck on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:33:34 PM EST

Cant help going back to VP decision (2.00 / 1)

How the frick did Obama people pass over her? If this is the speech she gave when she is not on the ticket, what would have happened when she was on the ticket.

Oh well, I guess you are allowed one mistake.

by ann0nymous on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:35:19 PM EST

Re: Cant help going back to VP decision (none / 0)

I think if Hillary wasn't married to the former president of the United States, she probably would have been a shoe-in for veep. Bill would have complicated things way too much for Obama.

by Will Graham on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:40:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cant help going back to VP decision (2.00 / 1)

If she wants to run again for President, she is better off not being VP. She will be the favorite and there are only 2 people with a chance of taking her on in 2016... Mark Warner and Al Gore. If Obama had a bad presidency, she would be tied to it.... If he is successful, he will support her in the General and that will help her beat whatever reptile the GOP puts up.

Being VP won't boost her any and could hurt her.... She's better off staying in the Senate and growing her stature even more.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:44:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cant help going back to VP decision (2.00 / 1)

Unfortunately, Hillary is 61 this year. She'll be 68 in 2016. For all the reasons we're savaging McCain for being too old and out of touch, it's extremely unlikely that she could follow a younger president. This was her chance. It is gone. That is why her supporters will always grieve that this wonderful woman will not be president.

It's unrealistic to try to console people with the "she has 2016" line. As the Democrats.com email just reminded me, at 73 McCain would be the oldest president ever elected.

by milton333 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:53:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cant help going back to VP decision (none / 0)

Well, I'm bad at math - she'll be 69 in 2016, is what I meant to say.

by milton333 on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:54:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cant help going back to VP decision (none / 0)

69 is the same age as Ronald Reagan when he was elected in 1980. I would hope you'd think Hillary's skills and political know how are better than Reagan's.

They're sure as hell alot more noble.

by ArkansasLib on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:57:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cant help going back to VP decision (none / 0)

She's starting with a hell of a lot more brains than Reagan, so it would take her much longer to lose her edge.

by Bush Bites on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:09:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cant help going back to VP decision (none / 0)

Agreed, but remember all the Rush "we don't want her to get old" talk. Hillary would do fine among Dems, but Indies and Repubs would be a different matter.

by ProgressiveDL on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:37:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cant help going back to VP decision (none / 0)

Well, if this speech is the key to getting Obama over the top against McCain, maybe he could offer her the first Supreme Court opening that comes along.

by Will Graham on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:59:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cant help going back to VP decision (none / 0)

Boy am I the only one who'd love to see Roberts retire early, be impeached or simply drop dead from natural causes.... Chief Justice Hillary Clinton.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:03:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cant help going back to VP decision (none / 0)

This is what I've been thinking. Honestly, though, I wonder about some sort of new cabinet post to deal with health care.

by milton333 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:03:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cant help going back to VP decision (none / 0)

McCain comes off as a crazy bitter old man with some issues.... As long as Hillary is of sound mind, she will be find.... Especially with a Warner as VP. As Arkansaslib pointed out, Reagan was that age when elected. People are living longer these days.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:02:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cant help going back to VP decision (none / 0)

Yes, but perhaps you missed all the sexist media crap about how old she looked this campaign? How she was getting jowly and had thick ankles? Think that the media will be any kinder to her in 8 years?

Reagan was a long time ago, and we now know that he had Alzheimer's while in office. We as a country are moving away from electing elderly presidents. I don't see us going back there.

by milton333 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:05:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cant help going back to VP decision (none / 0)

>>Yes, but perhaps you missed all the sexist media crap about how old she looked this campaign?

How many people vote based on thick ankles? I know I don't.

>>We as a country are moving away from electing elderly presidents. I don't see us going back there.

Yet at the same time we are becoming a more elderly country, and our life spans keep expanding. I don't think electing someone in their 70's is a very revolutionary thing - rather "ho hum" if you asked me.

by mikes101 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:13:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cant help going back to VP decision (none / 0)

> How many people vote based on thick ankles?

In 2000, we had an entire election about clothing, sighs, and random comments taken out of context and "improved" by the media. Just sayin'.

Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.

by itsthemedia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:17:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cant help going back to VP decision (none / 0)

In all due respect, this is a shortsighted and ridiculous argument.
I want to make a couple points:

1) The media suffered a SERIOUS backlash for sexist attitudes in the netroots, Shuster was suspended and Matthews was made to apologize (which is something that blow hard rarely does). If they got a backlash for picking on a middle aged women, you don't think they'd get a FAR greater backlash from picking on an older woman?

2) Women have longer life expectancy than men.

3) Hillary doesn't have alzheimer's, isn't a fake cowboy or a fucking moron.

4) Hillary is a sharp lady and tough fighter now, 8 years will only add a few more years of grit and wisdom.

5) If there is one woman in America who could be just as tough and tenacious at 69 as she is at 60, TONIGHT proved it was Hillary Clinton.

6) We HAVE to turn the page on George Bush, we can't wait another 4 years, but we can rest assured that 8 years from now, we have one fighter who is absolutely ready to take center stage.

7) Think how FUCKING AWESOME it would be to see the Democrats elect the First African American and First Woman Presidents BACK TO BACK.

We can do it, whenever America faces challenges or needs barriers broken, history shows us that DEMOCRATS rise to the occasion.

by ArkansasLib on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:16:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes (2.00 / 1)

Women are not being melodramatic when we say that we will not see a female President for the foreseeable future. That is the reality. There is no one waiting in the wings (at least not in the Democratic Party) with a real chance to break the highest and hardest glass ceiling. Hillary was our one best chance. We got tantalizingly close but the moment is gone.

Hillary Clinton would have been a spectacular President. I will always believe that we are all missing out by not having the chance to have her as our President. I will always feel some regret for what might have been this year.

Obama has my support, he'll get my vote... but Hillary Clinton has my respect, my admiration, my gratitude, my awe, my heart.

"Life is too short, time is too precious, and the stakes are too high to dwell on what might have been." Hillary Rodham Clinton - June 7, 2008

by twinmom on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:03:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes (none / 0)

I dunno Twinmom. I do tend to agree that Hillary's chance may have slipped by for good. The prospect of her making a run in 2016 is not out of the question, but 8 years is an awfully long time in politics, and who knows who will be in the spotlight by then?

However, Hillary's candidacy has pushed our political discourse near (if not beyond) a tipping point, where from now on a female running for high office will not seem like a novelty. Maybe the next woman who runs can be examined more on her merits, with a lot less of the psycho-sexual undertone we saw in much of the media coverage this year.

In this respect, Jesse Jackson paved the trail for Obama by winning a bunch of primaries. even though he did not come close to getting the nomination, he gave people the chance to get used to the idea of a black man winning presidential primaries, and when Obama came along, he was instantly considered a credible candidate. Hillary has done the same for some woman - maybe herself, maybe someone we have not even heard of yet.

Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.

by itsthemedia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:37:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cant help going back to VP decision (none / 0)

I think McCain is out of touch because he doesn't know how to use a computer, he's got 8 houses, and he thinks that Iraq was a good idea and wants to continue on in Iran....

As for him being 73, I don't see that being a decisive issue for the vast majority of Americans. And frankly, I don't think attacking someone for their age is a very respectable thing to do - I would suggest Democrats lay off that line of attack.

If Obama has 2 good terms and Hillary still wants to run in 2016 and is in good health, her age is not going to prevent her from running. But I sort of hope she either runs or makes peace with life and a difference in politics in other ways a la Al Gore. Pushing a universal health care bill through Congress would be a major accomplishment.

by mikes101 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:09:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cant help going back to VP decision (none / 0)

don't forget, on average women also live longer than men. that certainly helps.

an electoral landslide with everyone except the hanging on, hillary is 44, palin is 45, sweeties.

by Doug Tuttle on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:19:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cant help going back to VP decision (none / 0)

It's not her.

It's the people she's surrounded with.

by Bush Bites on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:06:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cant help going back to VP decision (none / 0)

Hillary Clinton as Obama's VP is not as effective as Hillary the Senator.

A PROUD Hopium user!

by xodus1914 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:19:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (none / 0)

by UrbanRedneck on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:35:29 PM EST

Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (2.00 / 1)

And that's just one reason I've been for Hillary all along.

Tremendous.

by InigoMontoya on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:35:50 PM EST

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I wonder if Hillary thought about that vile joke John McCain told about then 12-year old Chelsea being ugly to get herself psyched up for this.

I know she's fiercely protective of her daughter and that's the type of thing no one ever forgets.

by Will Graham on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:37:50 PM EST

Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (none / 0)

Ummm... the comment was when Chelsea was 18, in 1998...

http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25news b.html

That said, it was indeed a putrid, vile joke.

Hill hit it from Coors Field across America into the Atlantic Ocean.

And I was a massive critic throughout the primaries.

by Obamaphile on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:09:23 AM EST
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Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (none / 0)

You're right. I guess I got the year mixed up with Rush Limbaugh's Chelsea joke right after Clinton won the presidency.

by Will Graham on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:19:35 AM EST
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Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (2.00 / 1)

I love what James Carville just said on CNN. Quote, "if your a republican you had a bad night tonight."

by nzubechukwu on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:38:10 PM EST

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Wow Carville made an intelligent comment... I'm shocked. Tweety was gushing as well... You know if two freaking morons are making intelligent comments about your speech, you did well.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:45:39 PM EST
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Even Andrea Mitchell Was Moved (none / 0)

OK, you'd expect a good reaction from Keith, and the fact that Tweety liked it isn't a real stretch, but Andrea? Her tag line was that she felt a real change on the convention floor after the speech.

by Bob Miller on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:38:48 PM EST

Re: Even Andrea Mitchell Was Moved (none / 0)

I feel sooo good that she squashed keith obermann tonight.. hate the jerk... glad he was left gawking.. fool!

by gladiatorsback on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:41:17 PM EST
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Re: Even Andrea Mitchell Was Moved (2.00 / 1)

I know he was hard on Hillary, but he and now Maddow are the only progressives on Cable news.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:50:33 PM EST
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Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (none / 0)

Wow. Spectacular speech that made me proud of her and proud to be proud of her. In retrospect, it's made me think back to that moment where the two of them stood together before the California debate and I thought there it is, that's why I am a Democrat. And tonight once again, that is why, this is why, I am a Democrat.

by Piuma on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:39:15 PM EST

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OMG! She crushed it! I have no doubt now that we will win this election united and going away. She was all the things we needed her to be: powerful, inspiring and above all a team player who put the party and the bigger goals above her own campaign. She framed the battle in so many great ways, and took it to McCain in terms so tone perfect that I bet they are crapping themselves in McCain HQ. This Obama supporter has no doubts that Hillary Clinton will be a great asset not only to the election of Barack Obama but more importantly to the future of progressive politics in this country. Wow! What a night!

by wasder on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:39:22 PM EST

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by wasder on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:39:57 PM EST

the proof will be in the teacking polls (none / 0)

If McCain is up five over the weekend, it's lights out...

Just a snark, but you never know.

by esconded on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:41:23 PM EST

Re: the proof will be in the teacking polls (none / 0)

Is that the Biden bounce?

by SueBee on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:49:49 PM EST
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Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (2.00 / 1)

Her speech was great but I wish she would have given me a reason to vote for Obama, something other than he's not McCain. She said nothing about Obama's qualities that will make him a good President. Or did I miss that part?

I'm still not ready to vote for Obama. Sorry. Hillary just proved again that she should be on the ticket. She didn't tell me why Obama should be.

by SueBee on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:43:41 PM EST

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so did you not listen to the speech are you just a troll?

I want you to ask yourselves: Were you in this campaign just for me? Or were you in it for that young Marine and others like him? Were you in it for that mom struggling with cancer while raising her kids? Were you in it for that boy and his mom surviving on the minimum wage? Were you in it for all the people in this country who feel invisible?

Those are the reasons I ran for President. Those are the reasons I support Barack Obama. And those are the reasons you should too.

but if only she gave you a reason to vote for Barack.

Dream for tomorrow but fight for it today.

by TruthMatters on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:46:42 PM EST
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What's any of that got to do with Obama? I wanted her to say something positive about HIM, give me a reason or two to support HIM, something other than "well, at least he's a democrat". What's unique about Obama, what's he bringing to the table? I didn't hear a thing about him, his skills, his visions, his leadership abilities.

by SueBee on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:54:40 PM EST
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Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (none / 0)

I think you should watch his speech if you were looking for that. From what I understand, that's what he will be doing.

As for Hillary, this was saying, if you care about the things I care for, this should not even be a choice.

"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."

by vcalzone on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:56:38 PM EST
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Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (none / 0)

I think that SueBee is right here. But she's also caught in a contradiction. The fact that HRC did not give more of a rationale for why Obama, in particular, is poised to carry the legacy forward is why it was an excellent speech, but not a great one. The evaluation of a speech has to take into account it's rhetorical context, i.e. regarding what it aims to persuade. Of course, I am willing to take a utilitarian tack here. If it works, than this criticism will be somewhat nullified. Unfortunately, SueBee's own reaction seems to indicate that this flaw is a real one. We need a larger sample size to determine that.

The future is unwritten

by Strummerson on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:09:28 AM EST
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Go read some of the comments on allegre's corner.. (none / 0)

...and ask yourself what the average poster there would find to be a compelling reason to vote for Obama. Maddow's "post-rational" critique applies here. I heard HRC saying that Obama carries forward the values and goals we have in common. I think it will persuade rational people who share the values HRC enumerated. Post-rational people...well, like I said at first, what would ever convince those people?

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. -Voltaire

by kydoc2 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:55:57 AM EST
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Re: Go read some of the comments on allegre's (none / 0)

Sure. Some will never be convinced. But if the speech was light on something it was more specific rationale for Obama's candidacy. It's not clear to me she could have accomplished this compellingly. But this is exactly why some of us were so upset at the way she was giving the republicans fodder during the primaries. McCain's camp is crowing that she still did not address his readiness. That argument against Obama would have been raised anyway. But look how Clinton (an Biden as well) made that accusation more credible.

I thought it was an excellent speech. I hold nothing against Clinton with regards to it. But if there is something we needed her to do, whether or not she was capable, then this was it.

The future is unwritten

by Strummerson on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 08:16:25 AM EST
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Yeah. (none / 0)

I hear you.

It would be pretty freaking cool if Bill talks convincingly about "specific rationale for Obama's candidacy " tonight. I honestly have no idea whether to expect that or not. Does anyone have predictions/guesses about the content and feel of Bill's speech tonight?

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. -Voltaire

by kydoc2 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 11:01:15 AM EST
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Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (none / 0)

Not her job, and she's not super-human. Honestly, I cried during her speech. I can't imagine what it took to stand up there, knowing that you lost, knowing that you are still passionately supported, knowing that your bid was historic and that so many women will be let down because it failed. To try to put a smile on your face and say that it's okay, to not be sad or sentimental, to be a team player, despite what really was a deluge of sexism from the media. It must have taken superhuman effort. It's too much to ask that she make a passionate personal plea for Obama. She did what she needed to do, she did what she could, she made the political case for him. She fulfilled her role, and it must have been incredibly difficult to do it. I don't think anyone should have expected her to make a sales pitch for Obama, there were plenty of other people at the convention to do that.

by milton333 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:01:16 AM EST
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Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (none / 0)

I thought her plea for Obama was as passionate and personal as any I've seen her give this election cycle. She did everything she could have. This speech was FANTASTIC, and anyone who complains is looking for a reason to whine.

by ArkansasLib on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:03:30 AM EST
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Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (none / 0)

Honestly, I'll bet you anything Hillary thought about that awful joke McCain told about Chelsea being ugly to get pumped up for this.

There's just no way that she's forgotten about that. It's the type of thing that sticks with you forever.

by Will Graham on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:05:52 AM EST
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Yeah, she only said our children and our country depended on it.

Screw them, huh?

by Bush Bites on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:14:26 AM EST
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Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (2.00 / 1)

Well, Hillary is smart, and a Democrat, and she endorses Obama. She basically said the fate of our nation hinges on us making the right decision and electing Barack Obama. In fact, she gave a barn burner of a speech saying that our future can only be bright if we elect Obama. I don't see any ambiguity here. Hillary says elect Obama or we will all suffer, and she couldn't be more right.

www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com

by LandStander on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:26:22 AM EST
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Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (none / 0)

So vote for the guy who wants to overturn Roe v Wade then. Or maybe you should vote for the guy that calls his wife a c*nt.

A PROUD Hopium user!

by xodus1914 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:43:07 AM EST
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Pat Buchanan just said that Hillary didn't have supporters, she had a following. And that the following was non-transferrable and based entirely on personality, not on any issues. I fear he may be at least in part accurate.

"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."

by vcalzone on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:57:39 PM EST
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Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (none / 0)

Why don't you actually take some time and read both of their positions? Are you an individual who is intelligent enough to read up on the Pro-Choice, Pro-Womens rights Obama and the Anti-Choice, Called his wife a C**T John McCain or are you a sheep that has to be told what to do.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:53:05 PM EST
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Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (none / 0)

What do you disagree with Obama on? Or more specifically, what is McCain going to do for you that Obama will not?

"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."

by vcalzone on Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 11:53:05 PM EST
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Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (none / 0)

I just do not trust Obama to keep us safe. If we aren't safe, abortion and gay rights don't really matter, do they? jmo

by SueBee on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:03:02 AM EST
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Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (2.00 / 1)

1) How does a guy with a twitchy trigger finger like McCain keep us safe?

2) Are we safer now than 8 years ago? (The answer is No as Al Qaida is stronger than ever)

3) Where do you live? Do you live in an ACTUAL CITY THAT MAY BE A TARGET... DC, NY, CHICAGO, LA, SEATTLE, PHILLY, ETC. or do you live in rural Mississippi, Iowa, Ohio or some other place that terrorists don't give a flying fuck about, the people there are safer from terrorists than those in a big city but for some idiotic reason you run you life by needless fear because you watch way too much TV and movies? Because if you don't live in a major city, you may want to worry about the economy and not something idiotic like the chance of a terrorist attacking.... in fact Buy a lotto ticket because you have a better chance winning Power Ball than getting killed ina terrorist attack. In fact there has only been 2 attacks on US soil by foreign terrorists... the failed Bombing of the World Trade Center and 9-11....

4) McCain has supported Bush's policies which have failed to make us safer by ignoring customs, border patrol etc.

Answer those please.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:12:24 AM EST
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Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (2.00 / 1)

I guarantee you every city that might be an actual target of terrorism will vote for Obama.

The idiots in the sticks who think their local Pizza Hut is going to be attacked by Islamofascists are the ones who will vote for McCain on security issues.

(I'll never understand how the party that allowed 9/11 to happen became the security party anyway.)

by Bush Bites on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:18:56 AM EST
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Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (none / 0)

Agreed with you there... Its like the people who are scared all the info on their HD will be stolen if they drop it off to a recyling place... NOBODY CARES! THEY DON'T TARGET THOSE PLACES... They go after businesses... the chances are ASTRONOMICAL. I'm tired of stupid people who live in fear... my tolerance for them is nil.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:32:07 AM EST
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Re: DNCC: Post Show Open Thread (none / 0)

Can you refrain from antagonizing potential Democratic voters?

SueBee raises a legitimate question and the answer is that Obama is going to put together a great national security team and have a great foreign policy, not that "you may be a dumb shit who lives in the exurbs so why do you care about terrorism". Just a suggestion - that is - if you care about winning people over to your side...

by mikes101